(SOLVED) Possible to capture sound of the Oric Atmos to external device?

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xahmol
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(SOLVED) Possible to capture sound of the Oric Atmos to external device?

Post by xahmol »

EDIT: SOLVED! A generic DIN to RCA audio cable does the trick, thanks to this post of Symoon.

Recently I have been striving to capture the screen and sound output from my retro computer real hardware to my PC for Youtube recording.

TL;DR: Is there any way to capture the sound that goes to the Oric Atmos internal speaker to an external device?

Long story:
I now am succeeding in capturing the Oric video output to my PC with the following setup:
- Output to scart using a Retro Computer Shack Oric Atmos RGB to SCART cable;
- Lotharek Hydra 2 SCART switcher so I can split the SCART signal to my CRT screen and my capture device at the same time without quality loss (while also connecting my other retro computers that have RGB output over SCART);
- Framemeister xRGB Mini to convert the SCART RGB signal to HDMI 1080p 50Hz output;
- Elgato Camlink 4K to capture the HDMI signal via USB to my PC;
- OBS software to record this signal

I am quite satisfied with the result for the video signal, but of course I would love to also capture the sound. Is that possible?
I thought I had read somewhere that I could capture sound to an external device using a tape cable, but I did not succeed in getting any sound using the Retro Computer Shack Oric Atmos tape cable (do not have the original cable). Should this work?

Anyway: this is how the Barbitoric demo looks now in my capture without sound, captured from my real Oric Atmos:


(if you are interested, my channel also shows my capture attempts for my other retro computers, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRp7Em ... DeTBehb4Vw )
Last edited by xahmol on Mon Dec 20, 2021 10:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Symoon
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Re: Possible to capture sound of the Oric Atmos to external device?

Post by Symoon »

You need a tape cable (DIN plug) with 4 wires:
- tape input
- tape output
- sound (2 wires)

See Steve's page:
http://www.48katmos.freeuk.com/ports.htm

There are not that much around anymore but still can find one here or there I suppose.
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Re: Possible to capture sound of the Oric Atmos to external device?

Post by Dbug »

What Symoon wrote is correct.
The reason your tape cable does not do anything is that because pretty much no existing cable connects these pins, they only connect what is necessary to handle tape recording and playing.

That being said, modifying your existing cable is not very difficult, you could just get yourself a small female stereo jack cable, open the existing DIN plug, pass the new cable along side the existing one, and solder the three wires to the ground and to the pins 4 and 5.

Regarding the video, it's of very high quality, but unfortunately that looks like a perfect emulator or LCD display, while the original material was supposed to be shown on CRT, which means some blurring and some scanlines.

By comparison, here is a captures (on Atari STe) I've done with my OSSC with the scanline mode enabled:



even when I do emulator captures, I try to get this effect, because it's closer from the original intent than pure pixels, like on this Twilighte O-Type capture made with Oricutron and then filtered:

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Re: Possible to capture sound of the Oric Atmos to external device?

Post by xahmol »

Thanks! Will look for such a cable then!
Soldering one myself I do not think is a wise direction 😉

So any tips where to find such a cable (or someone willing to make one for me?)
Any cable I can find looks like mine and is sold as tape only.

On those scanlines: yeah, that is a personal preference. However, the Framemeister has the possibility to output scan lines, just chose to not do so now. See that the retro community (the part that does captures) is heavily divided in scanlines fanatics (apparently like you) and those who prefer not to (like me).

Will try to get a capture with scanlines to compare.
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Re: Possible to capture sound of the Oric Atmos to external device?

Post by Dbug »

I know there are people who like or hate scanlines, but I'd say that as one of the authors of the thing you captured, I'd rather see it as the way it was made, which was originally on a Commodore 1084s CRT monitor ;)

And it's not just scanlines, the CRT has a whole bunch of other things going on, like signal persistance, impact on dithering, etc...

A good example of the difference is this type of thing:


For example Defence Force on a CRT looks much better than on a LCD, exactly for this type of reason.
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Re: Possible to capture sound of the Oric Atmos to external device?

Post by Symoon »

I suppose any site dedicated to audio leads will be your freind, if not then Ebay or Amazon.
Go for something like this:
https://www.amazon.fr/Nedis-C%C3%A2ble- ... 07HFFQVD8/
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Re: Possible to capture sound of the Oric Atmos to external device?

Post by xahmol »

Dbug wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:33 am I know there are people who like or hate scanlines, but I'd say that as one of the authors of the thing you captured, I'd rather see it as the way it was made, which was originally on a Commodore 1084s CRT monitor ;)
Will see if I can make a capture with scanlines 😉 of course the other CRT things will be less possible to capture not recording from a CRT itself, which is way to cumbersome for me.
Funnny thing: I have actually a Commodore 1084S standing very near to my Oric, but that one is connected to my Commodore 128D.
And of course I am not planning this HDMI output as main screen for the Oric. It is still connected to my Sony CRT for normal use, the HDMI output is to be able to capture on PC.
Symoon wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:37 am I suppose any site dedicated to audio leads will be your freind, if not then Ebay or Amazon.
Go for something like this:
https://www.amazon.fr/Nedis-C%C3%A2ble- ... 07HFFQVD8/
Ah, is it that simple. Was searching for Oric cables, apparently a generic one will do? Thanks!
(And sorry for my electronic and cable ignorance. Really not a hardware wizard here)
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Re: Possible to capture sound of the Oric Atmos to external device?

Post by Symoon »

xahmol wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 9:58 am Ah, is it that simple. Was searching for Oric cables, apparently a generic one will do? Thanks!
Yes indeed! Once bought you just have to figure out which RCA plug is which, by trying. Usually, red and white ones are for the sound, but I once bought a cable that didn't even respect that :lol:
With sounds and CSAVE you can easily find out 3 of the 4 plugs, the last one will be TAPE IN.

Oh and BTW if you plan using such a cable a lot and for a long time, it could be wise buying a second one - not sure where DIN and RCA cables availability will be in 10 years.
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Re: Possible to capture sound of the Oric Atmos to external device?

Post by xahmol »

Thanks. I will be trying a DIN to only the red and white RCA first as I do not need the tape part in this cable, also the ones I see at Dutch Amazon or other Dutch sites with four RCA are either really expensive or are only 0,2m which is too short and require another cable for extension.
So hope then that this one gets the wiring right to get sound to the red or white one (assume only one of the two as it is mono?)
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Re: Possible to capture sound of the Oric Atmos to external device?

Post by Symoon »

xahmol wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:17 am Thanks. I will be trying a DIN to only the red and white RCA first as I do not need the tape part in this cable
Mmmh, that's a bet then. Not sure red/white colors is a guarantee that they will be plugged to the Oric sound output instead of the tape for instance (see the cable I bught which didn't respect that).
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Re: Possible to capture sound of the Oric Atmos to external device?

Post by xahmol »

Symoon wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:24 am Mmmh, that's a bet then. Not sure red/white colors is a guarantee that they will be plugged to the Oric sound output instead of the tape for instance (see the cable I bught which didn't respect that).
Ok. Will see. Luckily the returns policy of Amazon is extremely flexible if not working.
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Re: Possible to capture sound of the Oric Atmos to external device?

Post by Dbug »

It's really not difficult to solder these, specially if you only need to solder three pins :)

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Re: Possible to capture sound of the Oric Atmos to external device?

Post by xahmol »

Dbug wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 11:30 am It's really not difficult to solder these
Maybe not for you, but I found that I am extremely clumsy with a soldering iron and no hope to get really better without many practice for which I do not have time 😉
So if somebody is mentioning ‘solder’ I normally stop reading.

Anyway, I am certainly not going to butcher my Oric tape cable that has been made impeccable by Retro Computer Shack if apparently any generic DIN to four RCA cable will do. Meanwhile also found a 1 meter 4 RCA one for 5 euros free shipping 😉
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Re: Possible to capture sound of the Oric Atmos to external device?

Post by xahmol »

Version with scanlines, still no sound:


You have a lot of settings regarding scanlines in the Framemeister, this is the settings on it when I got it.

(personally still like the one without scanlines better, do not throw rotten eggs and tomatoes at me.....)
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Re: Possible to capture sound of the Oric Atmos to external device?

Post by Dbug »

xahmol wrote: Sun Dec 19, 2021 12:54 pm Version with scanlines, still no sound:
You have a lot of settings regarding scanlines in the Framemeister, this is the settings on it when I got it.
(personally still like the one without scanlines better, do not throw rotten eggs and tomatoes at me.....)
Well, you are right to like the original better, apparently the Framemeister is doing some very weird stuff:
image_2021-12-19_140227.png
On the left is the OSSC on the Atari ST, on the right the boot screen of your FrameMeister capture, and two things are obvious:
- The pixels on the right have different height, they should all have the same exact size like on the left
- The scanlines on the left are clearly spaced to match the lines of pixels of the source signal, but on the FrameMeister on the right it just seem to be randomly placed to get alternated lines, which is not what scanlines are supposed to be

Are you capturing in 1920x1080, or is there some rescaling done at some point?
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