"Fair" games for the Oric?

Want to talks about games you like, would like to see developed on the Oric, it's here.
Adam
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"Fair" games for the Oric?

Post by Adam »

I'm thinking of action/arcade style games, and by "fair" I mean things like:

* When you die, you feel that it's your own fault, i.e. you could have done better.

* No randomness e.g. enemies appearing randomly and sometimes too close to react to.

For example, I'd say Hunchback appears to be completely fair, and least as far as I've got so far (just over half way to the end). I think it's fair because there is no randomness. Even if you die several times the first time you encounter a level, you can learn how to get past it.

An interesting mixed example I'd say is Zorgon's Revenge. It's almost completely "fair", except for 2 things: The space ship level can sometimes involve unavoidable deaths, because your spaceship takes a while to materialise, and by that time, an object may be immediately about to hit you. That's completely unfair. And something which is sort-of-unfair is when you get to the next skill level, on the bird level, you get meteors dropping on the highest platform. There is certainly skill involved and if you have excellent reactions you can possibly reliably run along the platform. But there's also a lot of luck, as sometimes you might be able to just run along it and no meteor ever even would hit you, due to the randomness of there they drop. Overall I like Zorgon's Revenge, as the "unfairness" rarely strikes for one complete runthrough of the first skill level.

One I'm not sure about is Scuba Dive. Once, when getting to the second screen, I was immediately killed by something which was on top of me as soon as the screen was drawn. But maybe that's because it was the second time I'd entered the screen, and if I'd done something different the first time, it would have been avoidable? Not sure.

In general, if a game has the concept of increasing skill levels, where each increase in level means things get faster or there are more enemies / bullets etc, then so long as getting past the first skill level is highly repeatable after practice, then a game seems fair to me. I don't mind if the higher skill levels quickly seem impossible. That's the nature of such games - "get as far as you can" - there is no "end" as such.

What are people's recommendations for "fair" or "fair enough" games that they'd recommend on the Oric?

I ask because I'm very into the idea of completing games (if they have an end), or at least completing one playthrough of the first skill level (if that's how they work). I really can't be bothered with "unfair" games where I need to keep playing over and over till I get lucky, and could be killed at any time by a no-win situation.

Thanks:)
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Dbug
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Re: "Fair" games for the Oric?

Post by Dbug »

Not sure if it can be "completed", but Defence Force is definitely a game where when I lose I knew it was my fault, mostly because I was either too eager to save a human or did not bother looking at the radar map, or used too many shields instead of keeping some in reserve.
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Symoon
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Re: "Fair" games for the Oric?

Post by Symoon »

Manic Miner springs to mind.
And Don't Press The Letter Q, even if it could happen to be unfair (not sure it happens, not sure it doesn't), it allows quite a few tries.

I suspect there are loads more ;)
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Re: "Fair" games for the Oric?

Post by Adam »

Dbug wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:44 pm Not sure if it can be "completed", but Defence Force is definitely a game where when I lose I knew it was my fault, mostly because I was either too eager to save a human or did not bother looking at the radar map, or used too many shields instead of keeping some in reserve.
I used to love Defence Force back in the day. Oddly I haven't played it since resurrecting my Oric. I need to stick it on the Erebus. Thanks!
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Re: "Fair" games for the Oric?

Post by Adam »

Symoon wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:13 pm Manic Miner springs to mind.
And Don't Press The Letter Q, even if it could happen to be unfair (not sure it happens, not sure it doesn't), it allows quite a few tries.
Manic Miner is a great example. No randomness even in spite of how it may initially seem on some levels like Skylab Landing Bay. Also a game with progression and a definite ending.

While the game is completely fair, I wonder how many people actually completed it without cheating, especially on the Oric with its 32 levels. Especially considering the level where you can't even see the platforms. That level is borderline unfair, but at least it is learnable, so it just passes the test!

I think Manic Miner is now completable for most people thanks to emulators and the ability to save states. I've completed it, in a single playthrough, on a real BBC, no cheating. But to do that, I had to practice levels first, after saving states. I found this approach to be the best of both worlds: you get to practice thanks to the ability to save states, but then you still face the awesome challenge of doing it "for real". It felt amazing to finally complete it.

I have Don't Press The Letter Q in my original tape collection. I remember not getting far in it, but I'll check it out again, thanks.
Symoon wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:13 pm I suspect there are loads more ;)
I'm kind of hoping there are loads. Some that come to mind, and probably pass the fairness test:

Hopper, Xenon-1. Even Light Cycle made some effort to be fair, as the "Rom Towers" appeared randomly, but at least they "faded in" before becoming solid, so you had time to avoid them if you were quick. I think a game is well designed if it can have random elements, but still make them fair.
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Re: "Fair" games for the Oric?

Post by ibisum »

All of Twilightes games have this fairness.
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Re: "Fair" games for the Oric?

Post by Adam »

ibisum wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:48 pm All of Twilightes games have this fairness.
I hadn't thought of the modern stuff. Thanks.
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Re: "Fair" games for the Oric?

Post by Adam »

Another interesting one is Gravitor.

I love this game. I just played it now and got to (but not past) the final level.

But sadly, it's riddled with randomness. Sometimes it's just not possible to move out of the way of enemy bullets in time, if you happen to get unlucky.

Perhaps with extreme skill it's possible to never be in the wrong place at the wrong time, since an enemy bullet needs to finish its travel before an enemy canon can fire again, but I'm not sure how realistic that prospect is.

The game's saving grace is that you start with 9 lives, so you stand a decent chance of getting reasonably far.

One simple thing that would have made all the difference to perceived "fairness" is if there was a shield, similar to Thrust.
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