OricExos - making the impossible

Want to discuss about Demos on the Oric, here you are !
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Symoon
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Re: OricExos - making the impossible

Post by Symoon » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:56 pm

Chema wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:28 pm
Dbug wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:05 pm
not like the horrible full separation audio of the Amiga
I know a few who would hang you for this comment :lol:
And yet I couldn't agree more with Dbug ;)
But I think we both had an Atari ST before having an Amiga, so our opinion might be a little biased :p
(although I don't like at all this 'war spirit' between machines)

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Chema
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Re: OricExos - making the impossible

Post by Chema » Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:43 am

The retro computing group I mostly participate in (here in Spain) seems to have the war between Atari ST and Amiga settled. Everyone now enjoys both machines, and has allied to fight a common enemy: the PC :lol:

I must say I recently got my hands on an Amiga 500 and I was completely surprised with what that machine can achieve. And the sound of the Paula is incredible for its time... I guess it was the best sound of the home market computers until SoundBlaster 16 arrived (at least, though Gravis UltraSound was wow, both in quality and in price).

But I went completely off-topic here... sorry :)

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ibisum
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Re: OricExos - making the impossible

Post by ibisum » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:09 pm

>How would you use the mixer?

I'd set the levels of each Oric according to my needs as a musician according to the composition.

>I can see how having a user selectable global volume would be useful, but a user selectable mixing would be a headache for the programmer

A) I wasn't aware you're planning on having more than one programmer or user out there with OricExos hardware .. ;). B) Having a 4-part multitimbral Oric synth is really for us musicians/composers - thus having individual mix channels for each voice is highly valuable.

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Re: OricExos - making the impossible

Post by Dbug » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:57 pm

chema wrote: I know a few who would hang you for this comment :lol:
I'm not saying that the Amiga has horrible sound, just that the non merged stereo is horrible, specially with a headset: There's a reason why pretty much every single Amiga game or music disk you can find on Youtube has been remastered with correct stereo with each channel blending in the other side.
ibisum wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:09 pm
>How would you use the mixer?
I'd set the levels of each Oric according to my needs as a musician according to the composition.

>I can see how having a user selectable global volume would be useful, but a user selectable mixing would be a headache for the programmer

A) I wasn't aware you're planning on having more than one programmer or user out there with OricExos hardware .. ;). B) Having a 4-part multitimbral Oric synth is really for us musicians/composers - thus having individual mix channels for each voice is highly valuable.
Oh, you mean by program? Sure.
I was just looking at the picture you linked, which had potentiometers to adjust that.
Software programmable volume for each chip is fine, that would even allow things like cross fading between the chips, what I'm against is user selectable mixing using actual physical controls.

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Re: OricExos - making the impossible

Post by ibisum » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:16 pm

>Software programmable volume for each chip is fine, that would even allow things like cross fading between the chips, what I'm against is user selectable mixing using actual physical controls.

Sorry for the confusion - I am actually *pro-* having actual physical controls, but this is because I'm a musician/composer and for me thats sort of a vital aspect of instruments these days. But, anyway, was just an idea ..

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Re: OricExos - making the impossible

Post by Dbug » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:26 pm

Sorry for the confusion - I am actually *pro-* having actual physical controls, but this is because I'm a musician/composer and for me thats sort of a vital aspect of instruments these days. But, anyway, was just an idea ..
Oh but i can totally see the point of physical controls while creating something, heck, I bought a jog controller to make it easier to navigate in the timeline when making videos.

My point is about the user watching what you did: You don't want to give them access to a way to wreck everything you painfully adjusted.

If you want physical controls, I believe the way it should be done is by having two separate things:
- Software programmable mixers, that can easily be adjusted by program in real time, or simply loaded from previously stored settings
- Some extern physical controls that you can use during the creation phase to adjust all these software elements

That's pretty much how most DAW equipment and software work these days :)

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Re: OricExos - making the impossible

Post by ibisum » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:33 pm

So how are the audio signals going to be handled - summed? I could imagine a 4-voice polyphonic Oric synth with summed signals might have some distortion/drive issues, or at least .. I'd hope that would be the case.. ;)

Can't wait to see more demos of Exos! Every time there's news, I think of the effort to replicate it.. An ExosSynth would be super neat.

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Re: OricExos - making the impossible

Post by Dbug » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:17 pm

ibisum wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:33 pm
So how are the audio signals going to be handled - summed? I could imagine a 4-voice polyphonic Oric synth with summed signals might have some distortion/drive issues, or at least .. I'd hope that would be the case.. ;)
I'm just a software guy, all I know is that on the AY the volume from 0 to 15 on one channel results in a voltage from 0 to 1 volt, and that if you get the three channels together you end up getting from 0 to 3 volt... non linear because of the log volume values.

Just summing the chips would mean that we would get only one quarter of the volume if we play only one machine, so probably not optimal, an actual mixing would be nice, but then we indeed risk to get clipping or saturation.

Suggestions on how to achieve the mixing are welcome, all I care is about predictability and ease of use, which is why I'd like the Master Oric to be basically behaving like a normal Oric: Mono at a standard volume so normal software runs the same, then we can have the other ones play in stereo to complement.

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Re: OricExos - making the impossible

Post by NekoNoNiaow » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:21 am

Chema wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:28 pm
Dbug wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:05 pm
not like the horrible full separation audio of the Amiga
I know a few who would hang you for this comment :lol:
As your local Amiga fan, I must confess that the Amiga audio channel repartition is indeed a pain point.
The Amiga has four channels, but if one wants to make full use of stereo then every stereo sound will need to immobilize two channels (one at the left, one at the right) and thus the effective number of channels suddenly becomes two, which makes it really hard for music and sound effects to be played together.
Only a few additional electronic components would have been needed in order to be able to direct all four audio channels to the left or right so it is really a shame that they did not do it.
But hey, a lot of great music and sound effects were made with this limited system nevertheless. ;)

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