Space99 - Development Forum

Want to talks about games you like, would like to see developed on the Oric, it's here.
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Chema
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Post by Chema »

Ah... got five minutes (I stole them from work time :) ) and fixed some of the most weird bugs. They were related to not saving some information correctly, so the automatic messages got messed up.
Twilighte wrote:
Twilighte I need fixing this pic!
Ok, i'll look
Just load the demo and exit Koenig's quarters and you will see the "energy ball". I really thought it was clear that it was a foe, but obviously it was not... If you have any ideas about how to make this clearer, let me know and I will send you the bitmaps.

Other things I noticed that should be fixed:

1- I think character sprites should be at least 1 pixel smaller in heigth (better two), to avoid problems.
2- Have to fix the coordinates at which rooms are changed. There is a bug so trying to walk along the border is impossible.
3- Need to get rid of ROM, which is now used only for producing step sounds and other useful stuff for debugging. As disk access has its own irq routine, we must either join it with the main irq routine (keyboard reading) or switch between them when disk is accessed. As soon as this is done I can start using page 2.
4- Need to save initial state on memory, so you can restart when dying. Maybe page 2 or 4 can be used for this, but also another sector in the disk can be used to store this information. Maybe we can delay this to later stages (when initial data is fully decied)?.
5- Add a way to detect if there is a saved game in disk, as Dbug suggested. Have some ideas about this, but nothing clear.
6- Add confirmations when saving/loading and quitting the game (the latter might be another entry in the Infopost menu).
7- Add more functionality to infopost... there are still some menu items free.. Ideas?
8- Most important. It seems to me that the player will have difficulties identifying those tiles with which he can interact. Infoposts are clear, as inventory games, but how can he know that the alien plant is a given tile (in the room where the robot is, btw), or that he can interact with a given terminal to create the medicine? Obviously those tiles appear several times as just background...

I am thinking about a simple system to identify them... maybe something as simple as making them blink (dissappear/appear) when the character enters the room. Other more complex solutions will be signaling them with a given graphic (a small diamod-Sims style), but this could result in confusion. Making them blink, or making their name appear or something like this when the character is near is possible, but a good waste of CPU.

The last possibility is having special graphics for them, which is a memory (and tile ID) waste.

Any ideas here are appreciated.

Nobody noticed that the overall speed has been increased? That means it was not quite noticeable :oops:

I can try another optimization for rooms that do not use all the possible layers (and some other cases), but will only work in a small number of cases, as the upper door jamb is allways on layer 3...

Which reminds me someting curious. I imported the graphics of Knight Lore archs in the past. I test them and they work perfectly as doors... maybe we can create something similar for the outer jamb of our doors and then add the sliding door graphic in the middle. This will remove the need of the upper door jamb, but will have two drawbacks:
- Flats adjacent to doors will allways be the same (the new doorjamb)
- Probably doors will need to be taller (to avoid rendering defects), creating an strange effect on walls.

The main advantages would be having a "thick" frame for doors (which will reduce the strange effect that the char cannot reach empty spaces in some cases) and removing the need of a tile 3 layers above the door, resulting in complete doors over platforms (notice now they are not possible) and probably more speed (if the optimization I have in mind works).

What do you think?
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Dbug
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Post by Dbug »

Chema wrote:Nobody noticed that the overall speed has been increased? That means it was not quite noticeable :oops:
Dbug wrote:...runs very smoothly too. Controls react very well...
Was thinking that this sentence was clear enough, obviously not :)
The speed is way better than earlier !

Now for the map, it does not necessarily has to be a in game map ;)

Actually it could be a full color poster/picture, provided with the game archive, a bit like these boxed games that came with a lot of goodies.

So we can pretend that Space 1999 will be released as a boxed game, and design:
- Floppy case sheet, with "Oric Software" logo, "Atmos+Sedoric Compatible" sticker, nice picture, title, some screenshots behind with bullet points about what the game is all about (with superlatives of course)
- User manual with the list of keys, quick "how to run", copyrights and credits, perhaps little introduction novella presenting the plot and characters.
- A4 map of the base
- Make your self modelsheet (cardboard) of an eagle ship :)

It does not have to be a ingame map, just that games that are based on the fact that the player has to discover and remember the world, are generaly (for me) extremely frustrating.

Considering the "cloud", perhaps all we need is to get informations before that there are potentially deadly things lurking around. I was just surprised, I didn't know what i was. Could have been an automatic cleaning system or some other non lethal thing :)
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Chema
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Post by Chema »

Dbug wrote: Was thinking that this sentence was clear enough, obviously not :)
The speed is way better than earlier !
So you noticed... good... :) (and phew!... it took me some time to optimize that)

Now for the map, it does no
it necessarily has to be a in game map ;)

Actually it could be a full color poster/picture, provided with the game archive, a bit like these boxed games that came with a lot of goodies.
So you did not download the map from my post previous to the one with the demo... :twisted:
So we can pretend that Space 1999 will be released as a boxed game, and design:
- Floppy case sheet, with "Oric Software" logo, "Atmos+Sedoric Compatible" sticker, nice picture, title, some screenshots behind with bullet points about what the game is all about (with superlatives of course)
- User manual with the list of keys, quick "how to run", copyrights and credits, perhaps little introduction novella presenting the plot and characters.
- A4 map of the base
- Make your self modelsheet (cardboard) of an eagle ship :)
:lol:
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Dbug
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Post by Dbug »

Chema wrote:So you did not download the map from my post previous to the one with the demo... :twisted:
Have to admit that I did not saw the message.
I downloaded the maps, dude, they are great !
Actually they are exactly the way I wanted them to be :D
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Post by Symoon »

Hi there,

Just wanted to say I tried the demo a few days ago, and it's unbelivable.
:shock:
Now please carry on making things unbelivable, I have to say I enjoy it :D

I noticed the character wasn't just blocked by a wall but kept on moving when hitting some obstacles, which is one of those details making things great.

Now just build a time machine, go back 22 years ago, and you'll be international stars ;-)
S.

PS: for special items looking like background, maybe the hero can say something special when entering a room, like "ah, the computer" or "oh, careful, the deadly ball is there" ;)
Or just display somewhere "computer" or "blip blip" when he goes near it.
Just ideas.
(EDIT: just noticed you already had the ideas I'm giving, oh well... ;))
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Chema
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Post by Chema »

Symoon wrote:Just wanted to say I tried the demo a few days ago, and it's unbelivable.
:shock:
Now please carry on making things unbelivable, I have to say I enjoy it :D
Thanks :) This kind of moral support is something appreciated indeed!
I noticed the character wasn't just blocked by a wall but kept on moving when hitting some obstacles, which is one of those details making things great.

Now just build a time machine, go back 22 years ago, and you'll be international stars ;-)
.
It is mostly a kludge but it works rather well, imho. And it was something Dbug and Twilighte claim to have in the game, so I expend some time trying to do it...
PS: for special items looking like background, maybe the hero can say something special when entering a room, like "ah, the computer" or "oh, careful, the deadly ball is there" ;)
Or just display somewhere "computer" or "blip blip" when he goes near it.
Just ideas.
Talking about this, I'd like to hear your oppinion on an idea I had. There are some graphics that are used several times just as background, but sometimes can be used as objects you can interact with. Those are ambiguous to the player. Others are allways objects you can use, such as infoposts or doors.

The idea will be detecting when the former are used when loading the room and, once it is displayed, make them blink once or twice, so the player gets some help with them. Making every usable object blink will be quite disturbing in the end, I think. However, this approach is not completely consistent, as Infoposts or objects you can take will not blink.

What do you think?

And yes, a more advanced idea will make some objects blink only until they are used first-time. Think of corridor and inner doors, infoposts... Inventory objects, such as the commlink will never blink, as they are clear, I think. However this approach is more complex and I'd like to keep things like this as simple as possible.

Ideas are welcome!
Dbug wrote: I downloaded the maps, dude, they are great !
Knew you'd like it.. :) I wanted them to resemble the old maps on those computer game magazines... I asked a friend of mine and he felt the same!

Cheers
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Post by Dbug »

It is mostly a kludge but it works rather well, imho. And it was something Dbug and Twilighte claim to have in the game, so I expend some time trying to do it...
The kind of 'kludge' that makes the difference between an enjoyable game, and a frustrating experience :)
The idea will be detecting when the former are used when loading the room and, once it is displayed, make them blink once or twice, so the player gets some help with them.
The game Resident Evil - Code Veronica on Dreamcast do something similar. Objects you can interact with are flashing briefly (light fade to white) when entering a new room, and eventually flash again every minutes or so.

What about having a key that the player can press at any moment to show all the interactive objects ?
Knew you'd like it.. :) I wanted them to resemble the old maps on those computer game magazines... I asked a friend of mine and he felt the same!
Indeed, they could be the kind of maps you find in strategy guides :)
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Post by Chema »

Ok, I made a first test. As soon as you enter a room, if there is any "ambiguous" object present, it blinks three times. It works quite fine and I think will be a good help to the player.

However ony "ambiguous" objects blink... which means only tiles that are used normally as background, but eventually can be of importance. For instance the alien plant in Hydroponics Quarantine you can extract the juice from (that in the small room where the robot is and where you found some trouble Dbug) blinks, as the same graphic is used many times as background. An opposite example will be infoposts, doors, Benes on the ICU bed and every object you can take or drop (commlock, keys, battery, notepad,...) which never blink. Those are not ambiguous.

I can make them blink too, but it will be quite disturbing in normal playing, as it takes some time and (most important) you can place several of them together in the same room, which will create an unpleasant slow effect (all of them blinking when you enter).

The idea of using a key to reveal them is also possible, but requires sensing an additional key and more complex code. Maybe can be added later if deemed necessary.

Last, but not least, I have turn ROM off during all gameplay and adjusted irq routines to work (in fact I replace normal irq routine -Twilighte's- with disk irq routine when saving/loading and then install it again -- I suppose this is not a problem).

This means no more sounds. No more tic-toc sound when walking (I miss it quite a lot now) :(

Hopefully Twilighte will provide me some sound effects to fill the game when he ends his editor.

That is all for now. More news soon.
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Post by Dbug »

Chema wrote:Last, but not least, I have turn ROM off during all gameplay and adjusted irq routines to work (in fact I replace normal irq routine -Twilighte's- with disk irq routine when saving/loading and then install it again -- I suppose this is not a problem).

This means no more sounds. No more tic-toc sound when walking (I miss it quite a lot now) :(
:D This also means about 20% game speedup, because the standard IRQ routine is a real CPU hog !
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Post by Chema »

Dbug wrote:
:D This also means about 20% game speedup, because the standard IRQ routine is a real CPU hog !
Unfortunately not. We were using Twilighte irq routine, which was quite quick already :(

As a progress report, I have been working on implementing more of the plot. Now it is possible to finish the first part of getting the power restored to Alpha. And we still have 5990 bytes to create more puzzles... so be warned ! :twisted:

You won't be probably seing many visible changes for some time, but as soon as we start adding sounds or make any other great change, I will be posting a demo for you yo play with.

Regards,
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Post by Twilighte »

Unfortunately not. We were using Twilighte irq routine, which was quite quick already
In addition to this, any sound effects module added will slow the gameplay a little more.
Regards Memory space for music and sound effects. I am still very unsure. Whilst i will tap into the same routines for sound effects, The music editor will only handle the Music in the game, so whatever the compiled memory comes to for music+player, we'll need to add to this the neccesary code + memory for effects.
Sorry if i'm not putting anything concrete down, it is not for trying, but simply i don't know.
What would help immensely (as i have said before) is for someone to compose a list of all the sound effects they want for Space99.
That way i can at least start to estimate.
email me or make one in space99 music forum, so we can discuss and modify as neccesary. Then when i am ready i can simply create them all. :P
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Post by maximus »

:D hi great programmers

i began to play with the demo

what a fantastic design , the map is excellent, and so big

i found helena, the alien potion, change character ...

i don't have any problem, it works very well

i continue to explore :wink:
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Post by Chema »

maximus wrote::D hi great programmers
i began to play with the demo
what a fantastic design , the map is excellent, and so big
i found helena, the alien potion, change character ...
i don't have any problem, it works very well
i continue to explore :wink:
Thanks for your oppinion! Beware, though, there are some bugs in that demo (DBug listed all of them :) ), mainly related to saving/loading games (some data was not restored correctly):

Long time without news, I know. Work was quite stressing these days... and it will continue so for some time :(

Anyway I have made some progress:
- Updated Helena's sprite to Twilighte's designs, so it moves now more like Koenig does.
- Updated some item graphics to Twilighte's designs too... namely the Commlock, medkit and notepad.
- Added a couple of confirmation messages when the user wants to save/restore a game, to avoid confusions (Dbug will be happy with this one :wink: ).
- Added a message that states when the player may or may not change characters. This is displayed as soon as this status changes during gameplay, in addition of when the user tries to switch characters when it is forbidden.
- Added an initial alarm message stating that power is failing, to help the player know what is going on.
- Some bug hunting and correcting.

Twilighte, I would need graphics for another couple of items: a piece of electrical wire (cable) and a tool (a pair of pliers might do). You know why -- check the last plot version I sent you. Then I can progress into coding the last part of getting power restored to Alpha.

If you are too busy with the music editor, I can make some initial designs, but it takes me quite long and results are usually poor... moreover for coloured inventory items :) . Just let me know.

Any idea about the memory you will need for sound :) We have 5554 bytes + 512 (pages 2 and 4) in normal memory and we can make some room in overlay ram (currently over 6K but can save more if we load the world in sections when using lifts). Anyway an initial estimation will prevent me from filling ram with features and texts!

Regards
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Post by Twilighte »

Apologies Chema for not keeping u updated, i tto am exceedingly busy, spending all my spare time on this music editor which is starting to take shape. Did the Digidrum compiler module this evening, and so will be able to test that element of Audio Tracker (Yes the new name for the Music Editor). However i suspect we'll not have space for some extravagant digidrums in Space99.
Still unsure how much memory i'll need. I need to get the rest of the music stuff sorted then write the compiler. No use doing compiler first if some elements of music format don't make perfect sense.
Also i am a little concerned atm with cpu usage of music less fancy SID or digidrums. So i need to work out what can be saved.
I just hoipe you'll be happily busy for the next few weeks, i'll let you know as soon as i have something to show. As for graphics, i'll take a look soon.
However i thought i already did a spanner graphic?
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Post by Chema »

Twilighte wrote:However i suspect we'll not have space for some extravagant digidrums in Space99.
Yeah... just something simple. Anyway we should concentrate (imho) in small sound effects to add ambient (posted some ideas in the music forum, as you requested), even if they are "pics" and "pings" and "tocs". You know what I mean.

Music could be used at some moments only and we might load data in overlay ram where the map is stored, which will give you all the 16K to deal with in those occasions (init screen, dying,...). Other minor music might sound at other places during gameplay, but could be kept to a minimum.

If you saw the website I pointed out in the music forum, somthething like the scanner beep sound could be easily implemented?
Still unsure how much memory i'll need. I need to get the rest of the music stuff sorted then write the compiler. No use doing compiler first if some elements of music format don't make perfect sense.
Also i am a little concerned atm with cpu usage of music less fancy SID or digidrums. So i need to work out what can be saved.
Yeah, cpu usage is the worst thing. Some effects occur at moments when this is not vital (such as an opening doors, pickup objects, switch characters, interacting, menus, messages, room changes...). Some tenths of seconds of latency here are not important. This along with footstep sounds are, imho, the most important, but should pose less trouble. I hardly see difference in speed from when I used kbdclick ROM routine for footsteps and now that I don't use it.

Things that sound in the background while action is taking place (character is walking, mostly) are more problematic.

What if, instead of having music sounding continuously in the background, we keep it for selected moments? Imagine when Benes tells about fixing the computer. Once the player make a keypress to end the text display, drums might sound (even if action is stalled) as it happened in the series for thrilling moments. Or once the player finishes a partial mission, a variation of the first compasses (is this the correct term?) of the main theme might sound, even if the gameplay is stopped.

If you recall the opening music of the series (Dbug posted a link with a video from YouTube), you can cut the whole tune into different parts which can be used separatelly for different moments: drums in the begining, then orchestra, then that tune that is heared while the eagle crashes, then the usual electronic music we all remember...
I just hoipe you'll be happily busy for the next few weeks, i'll let you know as soon as i have something to show. As for graphics, i'll take a look soon.
However i thought i already did a spanner graphic?
Yep, but I would need something more like a screwdriver or small pliers. I think it would be more adequate. In addition remember I can convert the iso monocrhome graphics (as long as you send me the pic and the mask), but need raw data for colored inventory items.

As I said if you are too busy, I can make some initial designs, but it will take me a couple of hours (seriously) to come up with something hardly usable.
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